Curse

kanuks · Jun 27, 2010, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

One word: micro.

@kanuks - just curious but why would you use that over a N/Rt healer? Also without a maintained enchantment it'd seem the hero can't heal himself very well, unless (or maybe even if) it's smart enough to spam PS / SB on itself.

Well actually i only need the er hero in the forgewight dungeon so i can micro some prots on myself. Other than that i use offensive heroes. I still need one prot spirit copy against duncan though. I always take mhenlo, eve, the mesmer (lo sha?) and cynn as the henchies. The new henchies skillbars are pretty good and the mesmer is even stronger now with the recent mesmer buff.

I rly never had problems with the er hero not healing himself enough. If he is getting threatened he casts ps and sb on himself and with aor + er, every casts grants him a good amount of healing. I used to put life attunment on my er hero but quickly realised it wasn't necessary at all. Whats cool with the er hero bar i use is that it requires no micro at all except when I need to pre-prot on myself. Without any maintained enchants he still has that +4 energy regen so its not a big deal when it comes to the rare times he runs out of energy.

kanuks · Jun 27, 2010, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Henchmen

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Alesia

I think it would be safe to say that Jeydra should owe Cuilan the 600k 500 zkeys and 50 ectos based on this information. I do not know any way; besides those that would get you a perm-a-ban, that would allow you to micro manage the skills of Alesia.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Heros

Well you can micro henchies by flagging them out of harm. I do it all the time and seriously i never had a single problem with Alesia acting weird in war in kryta. I vanquished all of wik areas (even the new areas that doesnt gives a vq bonus, just for fun) with h/h and never noticed her trying to act as a tank or anything. She heals just fine imo.

I would have replied this in my previous post but i dont know how to multiquote from different posts...

Edit i see that the Alessia's issues seem to occur in normal mode. I can't rly comment on that because i never play normal mode. I heard many peoples having problems doing wik in normal mode and i suggest them to try hard mode because Alesia does great and the mesmer is also pretty damn good if you ask me. Not to mention that attempting wik with 2 level 15 henchies is a very bad idea. They are so weak at this level...

Xenomortis · Jun 27, 2010, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Once you start microing heroes to prot & heal her you are (a) wasting your own skill bar (b) bringing those skills on your heroes.

A copy of Prot Spirit and ideally Aegis are almost a necessity on heroes in Hard Mode. That way you can micro PS when you need to.
As far as I know, Jeydra (and most others) almost always takes a Minion Master (Bomber if you're going to play semantics) and that can take the two prots no trouble.
Anything extra is wasteful, especially since you can take two very powerful Rit heroes and at least one of them can spec highly into Restoration for a couple of decent heals.
If minions aren't viable in an area, you can always slot in a Smiter for defense and offense (not as good though) and the ER hero can make a stronger case.

That being said, I frequently take an ER Hero regardless (not out of necessity, I just hate depending on henchmen monks), but it does mean I know I'm losing out on the second Rit hero.

Jeydra · Jun 29, 2010, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

In normal mode and against WiK foes Alesia is not only inadequate, but also a burden to the team, in HM she's fine as healer.

You can flag her way out of aggro range to provide healing in-between-fights but then you still need something to heal during the fight.
Once you start microing heroes to prot & heal her you are (a) wasting your own skill bar (b) bringing those skills on your heroes.

Btw, are you certain about offering that bet?

Then enter in HM.

You're not supposed to provide healing in between fights, you do it during fights. You're not supposed to flag her out of aggro range, you're supposed to flag her away when she decides to tank. You (should) have Prot Spirit on your heroes for a reason, and you should learn to multitask. As for needing to have heals on your heroes, would you rather run an ER + Alesia, or a semi-healer + Alesia? I'll say right now that Alesia + standard Spiritway + me on Elementalist primary beats WiK no problems in HM. I have little doubt I can do it in NM as well; at worst it just takes a bit more micro. Therefore it's simply not necessary to use the ER hero.

If you want to accept the bet, go right ahead. I've already said how I intend to win it. If you take the bet however, I can already predict that it'll become a slugfest over the meaning of the word "micro".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenosmortis

If minions aren't viable in an area, you can always slot in a Smiter for defense and offense (not as good though) and the ER hero can make a stronger case.

These days there's another option, the Mesmer hero, although when there are minions there's no matching the MB.

@kanuks - what heroes do you use? The same ones you used to clear SoO?

Myotheraccount · Jun 29, 2010, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

You've run Spiritway, with 3 Prots and 3 Redbars. Most of the other builds I've seen you run or suggest have similar support bars.

I run ER Prot...with 3 Prots, 1 Redbar, 1 Hex Removal and 1 optional.

I think my facts are plenty straight.

Are you retarded? I said ER Prot please learn to read before you post. I run one redbar on one of the Rits and 2/3 Prots on the MB, I never run an ER Prot with it.

kanuks · Jun 29, 2010, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Then enter in HM.

You're not supposed to provide healing in between fights, you do it during fights. You're not supposed to flag her out of aggro range, you're supposed to flag her away when she decides to tank. You (should) have Prot Spirit on your heroes for a reason, and you should learn to multitask. As for needing to have heals on your heroes, would you rather run an ER + Alesia, or a semi-healer + Alesia? I'll say right now that Alesia + standard Spiritway + me on Elementalist primary beats WiK no problems in HM. I have little doubt I can do it in NM as well; at worst it just takes a bit more micro. Therefore it's simply not necessary to use the ER hero.

If you want to accept the bet, go right ahead. I've already said how I intend to win it. If you take the bet however, I can already predict that it'll become a slugfest over the meaning of the word "micro".

These days there's another option, the Mesmer hero, although when there are minions there's no matching the MB.

@kanuks - what heroes do you use? The same ones you used to clear SoO?

I usually play the typical 2 spirit spammer + aotl combo but adjusted them to my warrior, which now usually uses an hundred blades build (sometimes a scythe build). On the sos rit i use the 3 typical resto heals (mend body and soul, pwk and spirit light). The aotl necro has smite secondary with soh and judge's insight. I don't need prots for any dungeons except for duncan (need ps for the final fight) and Forgewight (the hardest dungeon for me). Otherwise the minions and spirits soak most of the damage.

To be honest I inspired these builds from a screenshot you posted a while back :P At the time I didn't realise that the communing spirit spammer was that good.

Dusk_ · Jun 29, 2010, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Are you retarded? I said ER Prot please learn to read before you post. I run one redbar on one of the Rits and 2/3 Prots on the MB, I never run an ER Prot with it.

No wonder you get in so many arguments. Your reading comprehension is terrible.

You said ER Prot is overkill. I said that 6 backline skills on one hero is no different than 6 backline skills on two.

And you really can't deny that you've run 3 redbar + 3 prot builds. You've recommended Spiritway often enough. You even have it on your PvX player page.

Amy Awien · Jun 30, 2010, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

A copy of Prot Spirit and ideally Aegis are almost a necessity on heroes in Hard Mode. That way you can micro PS when you need to.

Aegis is cool, but Prot Spirit is not needed normally in HM. Two Rits and a bomber makes it harder to bring decent curses, though it could be an option to let the bomber could take care of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Then enter in HM.

Good advice finally, what I've been telling people to do for WiK.

Quote:

You're not supposed to provide healing in between fights, you do it during fights. You're not supposed to flag her out of aggro range,

In normal mode Alesia is too low level to be anywhere near the fight, low AL and HP means she'll be tanking as soon as she's withing casting range - and the low AL means she'll drain energy from the healers fast.

In Harmode I don't really care who's tanking.

Quote:

As for needing to have heals on your heroes, would you rather run an ER + Alesia, or a semi-healer + Alesia?

In normal mode I'd advice to leave Alesia out. In hardmode I bring Alesia and I have restoration on the Rit, combined with prot on the Bomber and some curses that is sufficient.

Quote:

If you want to accept the bet, go right ahead.

You proposed it to Cuilan, with the words "... you can micro Alesia ...".

Myotheraccount · Jun 30, 2010, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

No wonder you get in so many arguments. Your reading comprehension is terrible.

You said ER Prot is overkill. I said that 6 backline skills on one hero is no different than 6 backline skills on two.

And you really can't deny that you've run 3 redbar + 3 prot builds. You've recommended Spiritway often enough. You even have it on your PvX player page.

No, your reading comprehension is terrible, just like of 90% of people on this forum. That's why you start retarded arguments where they otherwise shouldn't be. I said I almost never use ER PROT, that's because I use other means of healing/protting other than ER Prot. Got it now or are you just completely thick?

ER Prot hero only prots/heals a little. SoS Hero with one redbar spams Spirits, makes walls and spams uber damage buffs. MB with some prots creates Minion armies, deals massive damage with bombing them and spams hexes. Now go say it's the same as one ER Prot again and make fun of yourself some more. It's very amusing.

Xenomortis · Jun 30, 2010, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Aegis is cool, but Prot Spirit is not needed normally in HM. Two Rits and a bomber makes it harder to bring decent curses, though it could be an option to let the bomber could take care of that.

Eh? Curses?
The bomber can very easily take 2 prots, some cleaning and a res. The core of a minion bomber bar is only 2 skills and you shouldn't take any more than 4 skills to fulfill the minion duties - that leaves 4 skills.

Amy Awien · Jun 30, 2010, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Eh? Curses?
The bomber can very easily take 2 prots, some cleaning and a res. The core of a minion bomber bar is only 2 skills and you shouldn't take any more than 4 skills to fulfill the minion duties - that leaves 4 skills.

You're not suggesting 4 attributes? Soul Reaping, Death Magic, Protection Prayers and Cursus on one bar is spreading it a bit thin. But it might still work.

Xenomortis · Jun 30, 2010, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

You're not suggesting 4 attributes? Soul Reaping, Death Magic, Protection Prayers and Cursus on one bar is spreading it a bit thin. But it might still work.

No. You mentioned Curses in your post and I was confused.
I suspect you meant prots.

Dusk_ · Jun 30, 2010, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

No, your reading comprehension is terrible, just like of 90% of people on this forum. That's why you start retarded arguments where they otherwise shouldn't be. I said I almost never use ER PROT, that's because I use other means of healing/protting other than ER Prot. Got it now or are you just completely thick?

So what. You don't use ER Prot. No duh.

What does that have to do with anything? Where did I ever say that you used it?

Quote:

ER Prot hero only prots/heals a little. SoS Hero with one redbar spams Spirits, makes walls and spams uber damage buffs. MB with some prots creates Minion armies, deals massive damage with bombing them and spams hexes. Now go say it's the same as one ER Prot again and make fun of yourself some more. It's very amusing.

My SoS hero doesn't waste time spamming any healing at all. It maintains SoH, Judge's Insight, and Splinter Weapon, and spams AR.

My MB doesn't waste time protting either, when I'm running an ER (and if I even run a MB). It spams Death Nova and curses like it should be doing, instead of prioritizing protection like all Heroes will do.

You don't like ER. We get it. You've spammed up every second topic with your whining about it. Just don't pretend that splitting up Healing and Protting between two heroes is magically better than putting them all on one.

Myotheraccount · Jun 30, 2010, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

So what. You don't use ER Prot. No duh.

What does that have to do with anything? Where did I ever say that you used it?

My SoS hero doesn't waste time spamming any healing at all. It maintains SoH, Judge's Insight, and Splinter Weapon, and spams AR.

My MB doesn't waste time protting either, when I'm running an ER (and if I even run a MB). It spams Death Nova and curses like it should be doing, instead of prioritizing protection like all Heroes will do.

Run that then. Don't see how your comment relates to the topic. SoS and MB have enough time to freely heal and prot so I give them that and take something useful in the third hero slot. Nothing wrong happens if they waste time casting that, bullshit argument tbh.

You don't like ER. We get it. You've spammed up every second topic with your whining about it. Just don't pretend that splitting up Healing and Protting between two heroes is magically better than putting them all on one.

Fanboy, what's your point? You QQ allot but still haven't shown me why ER Prot hero is not an overkill. I already proven you wrong when you claimed that having some prots and heals on the Spiritway SoS and MB is the same as wasting a hero slot on an ER Prot hero. I suggest you stop embarassing yourself any further.

Dusk_ · Jul 01, 2010, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Fanboy, what's your point? You QQ allot but still haven't shown me why ER Prot hero is not an overkill. I already proven you wrong when you claimed that having some prots and heals on the Spiritway SoS and MB is the same as wasting a hero slot on an ER Prot hero. I suggest you stop embarassing yourself any further.

Proven what?

You run Prots and Heals on Spiritway, you lose Smites and Curses, and have Heroes spamming support skills more than damage skills.

I run ER Prot, and I get all my damage boosts maintained, and get PBAoE spells spammed.

Jeydra · Jul 01, 2010, 12:25 AM // 00:25

@Dusk_ - quote you something:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=116

@Amy Awien - in HM you do need one person with Prot Spirit, or you will wipe (or at least take deaths) to stuff like Burning Spirits and Elementalist bosses that hit for 404-damage with Invoke Lightning. And of course Cuilan can micro Alesia, he just doesn't want to do it for whatever reason.

@kanuks - kinda surprised that works so well with Warrior primary. Ever tried EFGJack's build?

Amy Awien · Jul 01, 2010, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

@Amy Awien - in HM you do need one person with Prot Spirit, ...

Well, usually there's a prot hench that brings it, so you might be right about the one person with Prot Spirit. But I do fine in HM without bringing Prot Spirit on any heroes - without deaths or wiping - even without the prot hench. Barring specific area's and bosses where additional copies may be usefull, in general I don't need it in HM. But I can see how one would take it on a bar that is dedicated to protting, or an ER hero who can spam it despite it's 10E cost.

maxxfury · Jul 01, 2010, 01:25 PM // 13:25

A copy of PS on a controllable hero makes agro not only easier and safer, but also much quicker.

If you cant micro PS on your self for agro control in the harder areas you have to hope Lina will PS you when you start been hit...and thats just not good enough imo as you cant pin her back and still have her cast on you out of range....pre prot > big damage when agroing.

Especially when hench usually prot by reaction.. and arent smart enough to pre prot you before you get in and control the agro.

Amy Awien · Jul 01, 2010, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Well, I guess we just do things differently, adapt our strategy to what's suitable with our H&H setup. I always felt it was too expensive, but that argument crumbles with ER anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

I run ER Prot, and I get all my damage boosts maintained, and get PBAoE spells spammed.

Not sure what you run on your ER-prot with PBAoE's but the PvX one dedicates a hero-slot to a bar filled with prots and healing. A bar that could've run something else. I know the OP asks about ER prot+heal but I feel there must be something offensive you can feed from ER and spamming cheap, fast recharging prots.

kanuks · Jul 01, 2010, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

@Dusk_ - quote you something:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=116

@Amy Awien - in HM you do need one person with Prot Spirit, or you will wipe (or at least take deaths) to stuff like Burning Spirits and Elementalist bosses that hit for 404-damage with Invoke Lightning. And of course Cuilan can micro Alesia, he just doesn't want to do it for whatever reason.

@kanuks - kinda surprised that works so well with Warrior primary. Ever tried EFGJack's build?

If you're talking about the 3 smiter build then no thanks. It requires constant micro and constant bodyblock. It might be slightly faster in some areas but i prefer my setup which doesnt require much micro. Soh and judges is still on my bar. I don't need all the other smiting skills. He basically uses a tank and spank approach with dolyak signet i think. I don't like it.